Screwed over on House Insurance

( this is a very long text)

This process started because my current insurance company (Edge Mutual) on renewal (after 12 years), was increasing the policy cost over double that of the previous year - for no stated reason beyond ensuring company profits.
I have held home insurance for over 40 years, with only one small claim (theft) in 1989 (on my home in Toronto). I have paid out tens of thousands of dollars for insurance company profits over those decades.

I contacted and received quotes from a total of 14 different insurance companies. The identical description of the property was given to all, based on questions they asked :

( name / contact e-mail / contact phone)
( address)

(age)

Description : Residence
- construction date 1988
- detached
- two story
- wood frame construction
- wood siding
- 1600 square feet
- no basement / on concrete pad (1)
- one bathroom
- steel roof (‘about 2010’)
- attached garage / 3 car
- original electric / all copper / 200 amp / breakers
- primary heating / electric baseboards / upgrade completed 2020
- ** secondary airtight wood stove  / 3 face cords yearly ** (2)
- plumbing / copper / ABS waste
- septic / drilled well
- water header / electric / date 2017
- no pool or hot tub
- separate car port / two car / pole over driveway / steel roof
- outbuilding or shed / 96 square feet / steel roof
- (deck @ 400 square feet / roofed, only a few asked)

- distance to fire services / 12.5 km in Dundalk / pond on property
    (no available fire hydrants?) (3)
- smoke detectors on each floor
- no bugler alarms
- no off site monitoring

- no smokers
- no dog (?)
- employment / retired
** home business ? ** (4)
- no mortgage
- no line of credit or liens (5)
(permit ‘soft’ credit check? = yes)
- how long resident - since 1989
- currently resident - yes
- how long insured / 40 years total, 35 this property
- any claims (5 - 7 years) - no / never any this property
- length of current company - 12 + years
- ever had insurance cancelled - no

There are some expansions :

1) No Basement / Water
I had to continually present an argument to have ’sewer back up’, ‘sump pump failure’ , basement flooding’, and ‘water invasion’ to have removed as a policy cost.
Septic system (no sewers)
No sump pump (house entirely at or above land surface)
No basement (da…)
Water evasion? Anyone who has ever been here knows the property, and the land around it is basically dead flat. The tiny stream at the rear of the property, even at spring flood, is at best 2 feet deep, by summer that is barely 1 foot. In a trench at least 8 feet deep. About 150 feet from the walls of the building. This within about 10 km of the swamp headwaters of that stream. I maintain it is basically *impossible* to be subjected to ‘water invasion’ here.

2) Wood Stove
None of the companies will offer a policy that covers a wood stove without a current WETT certification. The major part of this is checking that the manufacturer’s listed clearance allowances match what is physically provided.
The stove we have was purchased second hand some point about 2000. As such it does not have a fixed metal plate manufacturers listing. The small family business (WoodCraft by Norbell Furnaces in Etobicoke) is no longer in operation, or has any web information. As there is no data plate, the requirement for a WETT certification is ’48 inches clearance in all directions’. This is clearly impossible (available floor space is only 9 feet wide).
It is unclear to me if the installation is also required to be by only a ‘certified installer’. Of course I had done the installation myself. I had also installed the chimney, in the early 1990’s. This is R2000 insulated, double wall, stainless, done to the standards published at that time. I have been told (unofficially) that it no longer conforms to code. Partially because I welded up the supports out of heavy steel bars, rather than using the thin sheet metal versions you purchase. 

It is extremely frustrating as the WoodCraft stove looks virtually identical to the Drolet Spark 2, save with a sold cast iron door ( https://www.homehardware.ca/en/spark-ii-epa-wood-stove-black/p/5530902 )

For this reason we have pulled out the existing wood stove.
Most of the quotes provided were offered with the wood stove premium included however.

2) Only one company asked about this specifically, this Desardins based in Brampton. The agent seemed to have problems understanding what a * rural * property was. Then I was asked several times if I ‘ had registered for a water tanking service ‘? In conversation it became clear that the agent had never been further outside an urban centre in Ontario than once to Barrie.

3) Home Business
I had answered truthfully when asked ‘What is your Employment Status’, the truthful answer here is at this point I am fully retired. Yes, I chose specifically NOT to volunteer any more. This included specifically NOT making any statements about PAST activities I have undertaken.
A couple of the agents asked  * additionally * ’Is there a home business in operation?’ The truthful answer to this is ‘Yes’. Kelly’s own Elfwork Studios operates from our home in Wareham. I stressed that Kelly maintains her own, entirely separate business registration (legally required) and holds entirely separate business liability insurance (required to take part in craft shows).
- (importantly) not her primary income  / no direct sales from home
- work is “costume jewelry and sheet metal (tin plate)”
- no hosting of clients at home
- no wholesale production
- only sales at remote locations / craft shows
One company, this Co-Operators in Dundalk, pressed for more description of the raw materials, and expressed concern when I said ‘semi-precious’ stones. (In retrospect I should have said ‘base metals’, but by that point it was clear that the agent had no idea what I was saying.

4) Loans?
(More a commentary)
To my very great surprise, NOT ONCE was I asked if I had any outstanding *loans*. Just mortgage and line of credit. Car loans, which easily can be $50K or more, were never asked about?? Or outstanding credit card debt either for that matter.
Each wanted permission to make a ’soft credit check’ (what ever that entails).


Now, it became clear as this effort continued that individual companies are all using some version of ‘replacement value’ as an estimation of what amount of insured value they are willing to supply. The days of ‘purchase an amount’ are clearly gone. You either take what they estimate or get nothing.
Obviously the higher the recovery amount, the higher the yearly costs. However, this has descended to a form of ‘brick for brick’ cost. This is clearly NOT the cost of replacing the same *described* building (in this case, two story frame, on concrete, wood siding, 1600 square feet), plus 3 car garage. Yes, I do understand that ‘demolition’ costs do need to be considered.
- As you look to the actual quotes and valuations returned you will see MASSIVE differences on the ‘values’ estimated - from an identical description.
- It also is clear that many of these ‘estimates’ were exactly duplicates of the general *current real estate market price* for similar properties for sale in lower Grey County right now.

General provisions for all (unless noted)
- Deductable = $1000
- Liability = $2 M
- no sewer back up or overland water evasion
- prices without tax


Ostic (broker) - current
Jake Lubin
Fergus
800-551-3651
jlublin@theosticgroup.com
Quote via Edge Mutual
$637 K replacement value
$3615 (includes stove)
OR
$510 K replacement value (80%)
$2928
(Note : This is an increase doubling the cost of that same insurance from last year. When a quote copy *finally* arrived (after 4 weeks!) there was an accompanying letter stating the reason home premiums were increasing was because of losses because of BC fires and Quebec ice storms. This despite huge profit taking during previous years? This is clearly a greed based cash grab. Rejecting this was what started the whole process. It is worth noting here that the ‘replacement value’ here is actually *lower* than that provided by CMR / SGI, which has *half* the premium cost!)


Those in italics are not viable for obvious reasons,

The final choice :
CMR (broker)
Rebecca Matches, CAIB, CIP
365 Queen Street, Box 479, Paisley, Ontario, N0G 2N0
Phone: 519-353-5190 EXT 214 / 1-800-282-1915 / Fax: 519-364-7209
rmatches@cmrinsurance.com / info@cmrinsurance.com
Website: www.cmrinsurance.ca
Quote via SGI Insurance
$661 replacement value
ID theft
voluntary Medical (?)
$1561 ($1622 with stove)
Quote via HD mutual
$661 replacement value
$1741 ($1802 with stove)
(requires 12 km from fire?)
recommended by David - a niece Worth noting however communications are often difficult / delayed.

INTACT
Mississauga
844-989-3775
$748 replacement value
liability $1 M
$3800
(concern over Elfworks ‘semi-precious’ stones)

Co-Operator’s
Paul
Dundalk
519-986-3353
will not cover
‘not based on building shape’
forge (from e-mail?)

Belair
Charlyne
Ottawa 833-849-3004
888 280.9111
service@belairdirect.com
Quote 33105520
$499 replacement value
$1160
liability $1M
ID theft
replacement stove requires WETT
suggestion that they enroll new at low rate, then increase later

Desjardins
Kanisha
Brampton
866-710-4760
877-699-9923
Quote UCK0NVB8
$505 replacement value
$1480 (with stove $1640)
extremely poor customer reviews, mainly in not paying after damages?

Sonnet
(on line only)
no response

Crewson (broker)
Donna Stoner / Steve Gallaugher
Mount Forest
800-392-1151
donna@winfinancial.com
will not cover
‘lack of railings on upper deck’
** Recommendation : Take Edge at 80% **

Josslin (broker)
Todd Wilson (169)
Listowell
888-567-7546
toddw@josslin.com
will not cover
condition of *new* carport / sculptures considered ‘poor housekeeping’??

Humberview (broker)
Ryan
Toronto
416-531-4647
PENDING / 6 weeks later no return

Halwell Dumfries (broker)
Laurie Kelly
Shefield
laurie@hdmutual.com
519-621-4660
HD Mutual
will not cover = the Wareham Forge
(from Neil)
This despite the fact that the business effectively shut down in 2023 - and I consider myself retired at this point (at best I work less than most ‘hobby’ smiths)

NFP (broker)
Durham
Brylen
519-986-4651
via Intact ??
(had been directed from Economical)
570 K replacement
$1820

CAA
?? via internet
Eric
546 K replacement
$2640
c002624838

Aviva
?? via internet
844-872-3816
Andrew
520 K replacement
$1602
(extreme hard sell)
(current auto insurance)


The estimated replacement cost for the same home were vastly different. The lowest was $500,000 / the highest was $750,000.  
The resulting quotes were wildly different. The lowest was $1160 (for $500K) / the highest was $3800 (for $750K). Individual companies using the same average replacement costs had differed by as much as $1000 in premium quote.
 

In several cases it was clear that the companies involved just did not want to cover a rural location home, providing some kind of artificial reason. (I got quite angry when, after seeing an image of our side yard, one broker decided my metal sculptures represented 'an unacceptable hazard'.)

As a consumer, I consider these irregularities in valuation and cost illustrate a major problem with the entire insurance business.